i disagree that the salons were only sites for the same old exclusivity. because the other thing they were was a space for some people who were clearly marginalized from the act of governance and the creation of the law – i mean women- to have an impact. in the salons of their friends houses, women could engage in conversations like this one about the important stuff that’s going on in the world with people who were able to have a material impact on those events (mostly men). aside from being a meeting place for the already-wealthy, the salons were also a small step toward a truer democracy. i think you’re right that we need to be critically aware of the potential for exclusiveness and bias in places like the salon that get tend to get romanticized, but we also need to try and see what these spaces contributed (in terms of depth and perspective) to public discourse and public knowledge at a time of little media.

i like to think about how some men must have carried their memories of how smart and strong the women of the salon had been in the safety and style of their own homes with them into their manly daily lives. i like to imagine the sweet men who quietly, and then with increasing volume, longed to have their partners be seen as equals; to have women with them out there in the world. inside salons and other places like it men and women began to know each other in new ways, and the expansion of the potential in that new knowing is still going on because there are still so many people to include.

Now dont get me wrong. Im not advocating for Frances history of tolerance, nor their present levels, however the beauty and joi-de-vivre in practice, in this country props it up above the rest of the EU.

And even further more, when disecting the facts of the Paris situation, one must compare it to other parts of the globe. These are not mass murderings or attacks on the government, they are social outcries. A frustrated lash at the society and the idea of intolerance period.
When it comes to generelizations, none are appropriate, but they do stem from something. Such as Germans are robotic about their lives, Italians are sweet but rash, Greeks are fun, Swiss are cold……… The thing is that a general consensus is just that. A general consensus. Even though I am the last to judge someone on their personal beleifs or lifestyles(lord knows we all have our vices), This is a critique on the societies. And in order to do this one must have general working and practical knowledge of the society. One must live there and interact with different groups. Immigrant and local.

The only point of view worth taking a look at is a humane one. And anyone who judges or jumps to conclusions from what they see on tv(no matter what network or channel) is not seeing the real thing. How can you know a man unless you’ve been to his home?

“With Bouna and Ziad’s deaths the violent tensions seething in the depths of French society spilled over across its loathsome racial barriers beyond its poor immigrant estates into the spotlight. I remember once asking a group of young men of Arab descent, whose families have been living in France for decades, whether they felt French.

All answered in the negative. “I do not belong here” one of them said. “There is nothing for me. There are jobs. But if your name is Muhammad, Ali, or Rashid, don’t even bother to apply. The most I can hope for is a job at the local McDonald’s.” Another added bitterly: “I was born here, and so was my father. How many generations would it take for me to be considered French?”

Sons of immigrants

The rioters setting nursery schools ad shops ablaze are French by birth, language, education and culture. Yet France still refuses to acknowledge them as its own, still refers to them as immigrants and sons of immigrants.

The majority are incarcerated in poor housing estates, where unemployment figures are three times the national average. Those who defy the odds and succeed in gaining a university qualification are five times more likely to end up in unemployment than their white counterparts (26.5% compared with 5%).

Most are trapped in a hopeless downward spiral of joblessness, racial discrimination, and clashes with the police. What the inner cities are to the United States, the banlieus (suburbs) are to France.

France’s “beurs”, the sons and grandsons of its former colonials have no sense of belonging to the French nation, not because they are intrinsically unpatriotic, or naturally hostile to France, but because this land where they, their fathers, sometimes even grandfathers, were born and brought up continues to deny them a dignified existence, or a sense of respect and recognition.

No one makes more noise about integration than France does. But the gap between France’s rhetoric of equality, and abstract citizenship and its policies of systematic discrimination and hostility to its ethnic minorities could not be greater. ”

Even though French is only a shared language because of an incredibly violent history of colonization, the kids of immigrants would be ready and excited to really grow up in France, if they actually could get a shot at it. The governance system of nations like France (and Canada) need to make continuous adjustments in order to keep coming closer to the ideals they flaunt with their rhetorics. In this way, not only will their societies continuously benefit from the sense of good-faith in the intentions of their gov’t, but this feeling that trust might be warranted will spill over into the kinds of contributions those newly included Others feel brave enough to make. Because I’ll guarantee those kids who were electrocuted, and the other ones who have been starting fires, have so much more inside them, more that a better world would have inspired and enabled them to contribute to society, then their deaths or imprisonment.

I can envision the glorious scene of the festivities, but wonder what the demographic of the party was. Were they religeous Malians celebrating the end of Ramadan, or just partiers taking advantage of an excuse to party? Isn’t it forbidden to drink alcohol in the Islam faith? I can’t say I have ever heard of Hindus partying with a skewer of cow to celebrate anything. Or for that matter a Jewish party chowing down on some pig following a holiday.

I am confused at the cultural statement made here? How are we supposed to view this?